Leveraging Experience and Innovation in Franchising with Jeff Dudan

In this episode of the Franchise Freedom Podcast, host Giuseppe Grammatico welcomes Jeff Dudan from Homefront Brands. Jeff shares his journey from starting a painting business in college to becoming a successful franchise entrepreneur. He discusses the evolution of his business, from insurance restoration to the founding and rapid growth of Homefront Brands, which now operates over 200 franchises in multiple states. Jeff emphasizes the importance of data-driven decision-making, radical transparency, and continuous improvement in building a successful franchise. He also highlights trends in franchising, particularly the enduring demand for property services, and offers advice to new entrepreneurs about family alignment, logical decision-making, and seeking advice only from experienced individuals.

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Transcript

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Business is full contact and you know, the size of your business is directly related to the size of your conflicts and the size of your problems. Welcome to the Franchise Freedom Podcast, where you can escape the corporate trap through franchise ownership. Here's your host, Giuseppe Grammatico, The Franchise Guide. Welcome to the Franchise Freedom Podcast. I'm your host, Giuseppe Grammatico, your franchise guide, the show where we help corporate executives experience time and financial freedom via franchising. Thanks for joining us. Before we get into the show, just a reminder, anyone that has any questions, In regards to franchising feel free, you know, send us a message, go right to the website, GGTheFranchiseGuide.com you can book a call. You can leave us a comment. A lot of these shows are based off your questions and comments. So looking for some questions to answer on future shows. And we really appreciate all the support. So let's dive into today's show today. We have a very special guest. We have Jeff Duden from Homefront Brands. Jeff, welcome to the show. Giuseppe, thanks for having me on. I've been a big fan of the show. I've been trying to get on here for a year. So excited to finally make it. Yes. And just, and just to clarify, yes, we, we do appreciate it. I know you've been reaching out. We actually switched. So we were in a. Kind of a solo format. And I think people just got kind of tired of hearing just from me. So we said, let's let's bring it on. So we alternate between guests and solo shows. So I appreciate the the patience and again, welcome, welcome to the show. So glad to be here. Give the audience maybe a little bit. You have a really, you know, looking at your bio and talking in Memphis, give the audience and maybe a little bit of background of kind of, you know, what you've done in the past and what led you to franchising. Yeah. So you know, I was a, I was an athlete growing up. And ultimately my third school got us, got a scholarship out to Appalachian state university to play football. And I really wanted to stay there over the summer, but I couldn't make it on, you know, food service and tips and stuff. So I started the painting business. I'd worked the trades growing up and ultimately won the contracts to do all the student housing apartments. So it was a really good business. It was my first entrepreneurial experience. And a buddy called me and said, Hey this hurricane has just hit South Florida. It was 1992. So I went down there and worked with them and cut my teeth in the insurance restoration and disaster response business for 18 months, moved up with three business partners to start a business in Orlando in 1994, which I would sell some 24 years and 11 months later. It was called Advantage Clean. It was a restoration, remediation, environmental services franchise with 240 locations. So yeah, move back up to North Carolina in 1995. We were a direct business for the first 10 years, doing a lot of government contracting, working internationally, working in the Caribbean you know, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, Canada, you know, we were kind of anywhere that there was a disaster or any, any government contracts that we could chase. So And then ultimately decided after I bought my last partner out that I was going to commit to the franchise model. So I sold all of my stores. It's called re franchising. I basically sold my office in Orlando, Greenville, Spartanburg, and Columbia, South Carolina, and Charlotte to four different groups. And you know, worked with them from 2006, seven and eight. To, you know, refine our franchise program. We were one of the early companies to do a call center. You know, the common thinking was, well, don't do a call center. If you, if you drop a call, you know, you'll get in trouble and things like that. But we were, we were too stupid to fail. And we, we just felt like this was really, we're a big blue ocean strategy company. So we knew that. What we could do with 16 people would replace hundreds and hundreds of people out there in the network. It just made sense. It was more efficient. We could do it better, more consistently. And so then so, so we did that, went to the market offering Advantage Clean Franchises to the general market in 2009. Then I sold the business January 1st, 2019. Wow. So that's a, so you, you, you've been, been in the business a while. So and then when was so tell us about Homefront. When was Homefront formed? Yeah. So after, after I sold that business, I was trying to figure out what to do, and I kind of took an investor and advisory posture for about two and a half years, my brother, who was the CFO of the Carolina Panthers. He was there and he led the team selling the team for Mr. Richardson to the current owner of the Tepper group. So we got back together, created a family office. We've both gone through these, these exit situations and, and and we did for, you know, got broadly we're very interested in the reach and relevance of the franchise sector. So, you know, I have a lot of done a lot of coaching. I participated in the IFA, so was able to really work with a lot of emerging brands. Fitness, health and wellness, some food, some oil change, all these different types of things. And then after about two, two and a half years, I, you know, I, I just realized that everything that we were coaching these brands to was related almost back to this property service space, which we think is one of the most durable spaces in, in franchising. It's a very durable market segment. There's going to be a hundred million more people in this country in the next 25 years. There's increased migration due to remote work. So when people leave a house and they, they, they go to another house, there's work that's got to get done. There's less people doing this type of work. And there's really a shortage of the kind of homes that people want to buy in a lot of markets right now. And you see it reflected in the housing prices. So we're like, wow, this is a really durable space. If we're going to do something. We want it to be significant. And we said, well, if we were going to build 100 year brand, and we were going to get executives to commit to it for 10 years to come and build this with us, you know, what would be the things that we needed to do in terms of the brands and the technology and learning management? And, you know, even even down to territory design, like, if we could build. You know, what was what we believe to be the, you know, a, you know, a deep foundation underneath something. And we had the courage to, to build all that before we really invited franchise owners in, what would that look like? So that was the thesis behind Homefront Brands. And we went out starting in the end of 21 through the middle of 22 and acquired five different companies to franchise that were franchised or about to franchise. So we're really at the emerging stage. platform them all on to what is at the core of it? A single operating platform took all of 22 to do that. And then we launched to the market really in January of 23. And started really closing a lot of deals in March of 23. We were ready for it. And then in about 16 months, we've done, we've, we, we now have over 200 franchise owners operating about 600 territories in 44 States and two countries. That's pretty, that's pretty amazing growth and congratulations on that. That, that's a, that's phenomenal growth. 20 we're overnight success in 29 years. Yeah. And 29, I hear that all the time, right? And people, people don't see what it takes to actually get there. It's what is it? The, they call it the iceberg, right? You see the tip of the iceberg. You don't see what's right. So. So, you know, having five, you said five brands underneath home front. What, what are the advantages from from the franchisees perspective of having a parent company that has multiple brands, because I get that question a lot. What are advantages of kind of a, you know, A family of brands you know, sharing of CRMs, call centers, you know, what does that look like? Yeah. You know, a lot of it just has to do with scale and systems and being able to accelerate things. And for a franchisee, one, what we're really looking to do for them is we're looking to minimize the switching cost that franchisees generally have to go through when they join an emerging brand or a first time franchise or Many times they're under resourced. From a, not only a capital perspective, but from an intellectual capital perspective, you know, you, they don't, they don't really have executives that have built things before. So they're trying to figure it out as they go. They're also very budget conscious. So maybe they're not going to invest, you know, deeply into a technology infrastructure, meaning millions of dollars, you know, ahead of revenue, because they just don't have the ability to do it. So we knew that we needed. A cohort of really quality brands with the types of average unit volumes that would attract sophisticated franchise owners, really people that were looking to to invest in something that they could build something that would be worth their time. That would be material for them. So we needed the right brands. And then I needed the right executive team, and we were able to go out and recruit an incredible C suite. And underneath that, we have just an incredible row of brand presidents. So what's untypical about Homefront Brands is the depth of experience that we have. And I just know, like, like, you've gotta have, if you're gonna, if you're gonna do this type of accelerated development, you've gotta have the kind of people that, It's not the first time they're doing this. So all of our presidents have built and run large national companies before. So it's not their first rodeo. Our C suite has worked, you know, multi billion dollar, multi brand franchise platforms. So really we have this depth of knowledge. And then it was just up to me to have the courage to apply the capital to give, because you can't hire an executive and then not give them a budget. You know, it's like, okay, well, they're not going to do the work, right? They're going to build something. So so once we did that you know, I had, we had to make sure that we were you know, willing, willing and able to provide all the capital that was needed to create this infrastructure, not this four inch slab of a foundation, but really something deep, you know, 50 feet down to the bedrock that, you know, You know that we could build the bigger building you want to build the deeper. You've got to go into the ground to put that foundation. And so, you know, we've been just we've been just committed to that. And and then, you know, on the other side of it in a learning management, a big, a big strength for us technology we're a call center company. So centralized services, all of those types of things. Very safe, secure technology platform built on a Microsoft chassis there. But then, you know, the other side of it is then like, what are you doing culturally? You know, we don't, we, we don't go to the contract. We pick up the phone, all calls are returned, you know, within you know, within the same day, you know, sunset rule. I mean, you know, you just, you've got a, these, 160 business owners or 180 business owners, less than 12 months old. And these people need a lot. So we had to, we had to put 70 people in front of them to be able to meet their needs because they're never going to need more than they need in that first 12 months. And one of our basic fundamental tenants is start well and go well. So what we've done is we've taken all of the market penetration and market introduction activities, and we move those ahead in front of them coming to training. So that many of our franchise owners are actually transacting business before they've even come to training or they're doing estimates, right. You know, they're right there. So you don't wait until you put them through training and then send them into the market. Yeah. They got 60 or 90 days before they hit revenue. We want them hitting revenue right up, right, right away because. Yeah. I've never been a part of anything that, that started poorly. That went well. So it's, you gotta, you gotta start well, if you're going to go well. I mean, these are, these are, you know, basic principles, but they make complete sense. You know, you, you have a relationship with the franchisee, right? It's human beings. These are, these are. 10 year plus agreements, right? You know, I always tell people I've seen agreements from five to 20 years. And these are, you know, you're working, these are essentially extensions of the brand. These are partners. These are, these are people that are representing the brand throughout the country. So, you know, picking up the phone is huge and you hear less and less of that. You know, it's more of. Shoot them an email. That call makes all the difference, but you kind of answered my next question of when people look at, at franchises and maybe they're trying to start the journey themselves, there's 4, 000 brands out there. So it's really, you know, what are the things that make a brand stand out? And you kind of, you kind of answered it, right? I mean, it's, it's really pre selling, right? Getting, getting to market and, and generate, generate, hopefully generating revenue. As soon as you open up the doors, it's a support, it's a technology. What else, you know, what else makes a brand truly kind of stand out? Because a lot of, a lot of these franchise owners, at least people I'm working with have never owned the business before. This is their first venture. Yeah. So I could go several different ways with this. I'll, I'll maybe two or three things. So first of all, There's got to be a system and a commitment to continuous improvement. And continuous improvement is made up of several different things. Number one, you have to have data, right? So every point of data, even though each of our brands has their individual tech stacks, they all lead to the same data lake. Where we can now have machine learning and AI crawling across that data lake and getting insights and then taking that data lake and then doing data visualization through like a power bi and other tools to be able to give them relative dashboards and radical transparency franchise systems that don't invest enough to create radical transparency in the beginning. It's very difficult to go. Four years down the road and say, Oh, by the way, we're not going to publish all of your, all of your business to all your peers, right? There, you know, some people are, you know, well, I don't want to publish all that. Maybe I hadn't, you know, for, for one reason or another. So continuous improvement, radical transparency, data driven stuff. And then, because in the beginning it's like. Oh, well, I've got labor. I might have a lease. I've got truck. I've got supplies. I've got these things. But as the years go on, it's how can I get half of, you know, 50 basis points here? How can I get a 2 percent improvement here in supply chain? And you're just incrementally trying to nudge up that. That percentage of profit for the franchise owners is the only thing that matters is the four walls, like the end of the day, the second thing is, is, you know, are you intellectually humble as a, as a franchise or so we do a net promoter score every single month with, with every single month to all the franchise owners. You know, you know, if, if everything's, if they don't have anything to say, you know, because you do it every month, maybe they don't, but they don't chime in, but if they do have something to say, like, we really like this, or I really need help with this, or I didn't like, I didn't understand the way this landed, or, you know, this could have been done better than we hear that every single month, they can request a call back from either myself or the president O'Driscoll. And, you know, there's three or four calls a month that happen and we get on the phone with these people, but it's just that constant. You know, collaboration with the franchise owners, you know, the, the, the best example in franchise history of that is the, is the fillet of fish sandwich. Yeah. You, you grew up, I grew up in Chicago, went to, went to a public high school, but even though like a huge Catholic area, so they didn't serve meat on Fridays in my high school, like it was cheese pizza or Mac and cheese. Like that's what you had on Fridays. And it was the same thing. Like people didn't, even if it was out of Lent, people wouldn't eat meat on Fridays. So so McDonald's, they were all dead on Fridays, except for this one. And they went out there to see what's going on. He was serving a fish sandwich. So they like, wow, that's a great idea. And by the way, it's a great sandwich. So next thing you know, they, they, that idea of a fish sandwich came out of a franchisee. Not another, yeah. Yeah. So like, it's. But like all of the best ideas are going to, you know, so it's funny, I'm sitting here cause I do the first two hours of training and I'm like, Hey, you know, I know you just paid us all this money to, to jump in here and, and, you know, build, you know build your dream inside of, inside of the dream, inside of our dream, a lot of the best ideas are going to come from you. So we've got to make sure that we have this collaboration of, of positive things. And then if people, you know, and all of that kind of leads to like, there's, if you're, if you're pushing your business hard enough, there's going to be conflict. And, you know, business is full contact and, you know, the size of your business is directly related to the size of your conflicts and the size of your problems. If you're not pushing hard and you're not doing much, you're going to have it pretty easy because there's going to be nothing to fight about and there's nobody to fight about it with. So one of the most important things is because we're pushing ourselves and we're pushing our franchisees to, to win and to take over markets, especially some of our brands are like first market brands, our temporary walls business. Like there's, it's the only one like it. We're creating a market. We've got very sophisticated owners. But there's a lot of like discovery going on. So the one thing we look for with franchise owners is their ability to resolve conflicts in a healthy manner and our ability to resolve conflicts in a healthy manner, because it's not. It's not if something like there's always going to be something to be debated, whether it's a or B, which way we need to go, but we need to be able to do that, make a decision, look at the data, have a conversation and then, and then once we decide, we need to move together. Right. And I think, you know, that's really, that's a nuance of, of, you know, really good franchising is, you know, not losing the locker room, making sure that. That you take accountability for things that didn't go well or didn't happen fast enough, and that you just maintain a really good sense of, of trust and respect and competency in the eyes of the franchise network. And and, and if you do that, like then, you know, great things can happen. And there's so many great systems out there that are, that are based on these few tenants. That, that, that's huge. And, and the feedback from the franchise or franchisees having those Monthly reports, I think is huge because you don't have that communication. Then it turns into something where maybe the franchisee was upset or. There's something was said and they, maybe they took it the wrong way. So having, having those meetings and that constant communication and you actually getting on, on the call with them, I think is is a, is a big differentiator compared to some other feedback and other brands on how they're doing it. Let's shift gears really quick. So I wanted to ask you this question. So, you know, kind of, you know, where you're at. So, you know, we, we work with, with brands across the country. You've built this. This really large brand and, and, and it continues to grow. What do you, what are you seeing? Trends in franchising, right? People are always asking about the future and I always encourage franchisees or potential franchisees, you know, especially at that discovery day, kind of the final stage in the process, talk to the captain. I always say, steering the ship. Where not? Where is the company now? But where is the company going? You know, what do they anticipate? So what do you see trends in franchising and in the future of franchising just as a whole? Well, I think at a I think at a macro level business ownership has never been an issue. Higher class of asset. I mean, we, we care about three things at Homefront Brands. And, and one of them is like, you know, economic freedom, financial security for families on main street USA. You can look all over the world and see where they lose their middle class and people lose their property or they lose their ability to be have businesses and those countries don't go well. So, you know, I'm, we're really interested. In you know, using franchising as a tool small businesses between 46 and 60 percent of GDP was franchising is a small subset of that, but there are 800, 000 over 800, 000 franchise established 9 million people working by or for franchise companies, which is about one in every eight people employed, it's a massive thing, right? So it is contributing to stability. Of families on Main Street USA. So and if you look at I mean, we think it's, we think it's a real problem that kids can't buy a starter home for less than$400,000 Now, I mean, cash is King, but equity is the kingdom. And I bought my first house for$62,000 Some, you know, sold it. I mean, I've had, I mean, every, I mean, I've, I've. Real estate has been my bank to help me build companies for all these years. And I just kept accumulating real estate and then that'll be worth more. You borrow against it. Put it in your company, do whatever with it. Well, look who can afford a 400, 000 house and, you know, first year out of college. So that like, that's a problem. And then the stock market, you know, it's, it's a little tacky right now. We're in an election year, it's up, it's down, you know, maybe interest rates are going to come, we'll see. But like more and more over businesses are being viewed as a high class asset. So we have. a huge sophisticated very wealthy group of franchisees and home front brands that believe that when they look at the, at the, at the concepts that we have with their, with their AUVs and their item 19s, their ability to scale those businesses to size. And then they look at it and say, you know, I'm going to put a couple of home front brands next to my. You know, COVID testing business that they had or, you know, facilities. Or so we, we have people that are, that are adding groups of businesses because of, because they are a high class asset, you get to take advantage of the tax code. You get to do, you get to all these types of things. I mean, the, the, the employee burden tax is high for being an employee when it comes to taxes and things like that. So, so we are seeing, and then, you know, Social media since really 2007, everybody on there is talking about how to make money on your own. So it's, it's, people are just got this drill, you know, side hustle or do this or do that, or this is how you build a business or whatever it is. So there's a big macro movement towards business ownership. And I think that's a very positive thing. And franchising is a great way for people to do that. Now, then you look at, okay, well, what segment, you know kids, People spend a lot of money. People will spend inordinate amounts of money on their kids and on their pets. Right. So, you know, in the previous decade I've learned that by the way, with pets, we had our first pet and boy, oh yeah, they're eating better than I am. Oh man. Yeah. It's crazy. But like property, people said, well, property services had this big run in franchising from maybe 2010 to 2020. And now it was going to turn to wellness or it's going to turn to pets or it's going to turn to kids. Well, it did in a little bit, but it didn't But that undercurrent of property services, it's never going to go away. I say, you'll never find a home front brands nestled between a blockbuster and a curves, right? It's, it's always going to be there. If you want to build a durable business, that's that you can just put your shoulder to and win market share year over year, over year and have compound annual growth without, you know, you know, the cookies, nobody likes these cookies anymore, or, you know, this, or nobody likes that kind of workout anymore. Like it's something that. Is always going to be in demand, right? So we see that as a, as a trend property services really continuing to be a leader inside of the franchise space and a great option for a lot of people. Because you usually don't have a big outfit of a big facility. You don't have to, it's not a, a million dollar build out with, you know, treadmills and bikes and all this other stuff. Yeah. The investments are much lower and you can get open much faster. I tell everyone, it's not, everyone thinks fast food, right. And you know, I don't have a million dollars to invest in a business. You don't need a million dollars. There's funding and these investments are much less especially without the, the need of brick and mortar. So, yeah. And I think too, we do you know, our view is maybe a little bit different than some of the other ones out there where like our, our, our, we try to keep our franchisees investment as low as possible. And we encourage don't burn this. Don't burn, don't create a big cash burn, you know, like just follow the plan, introduce yourself to the market and let, let the, you know, when, let the business come to you and dictate these certain decisions, because look, that keeps them safe. And if we keep them safe, that keeps us safe because now they're not going to run out of cash and, and that, so you know, keep the low, low loans. You know, we don't want them to have a bunch of debt on the business. It's just. You know kind of like that toilet there's a great book called the toilet paper entrepreneur man. Oh, yeah from michael. I think michael michael micalowitz. Yes. Yes That's a great book. Right. And it's, it's like you know, if you're, well, I don't want to talk about what the analogy is, but it's basically, you know, keep it tight. Right. Be resourceful. How about that? He does it. Yeah. He, all his books, he actually, he was just in my town. I missed him. I was I was really bummed for for a book signing at the little bookstore down the street. So I missed him. It was last a couple of weeks ago or last month. So. But yeah, he's got some interesting viewpoints profit first, another one. And got some really, really cool stuff. I had them booked on my podcast, man, but then he like, he had to, he had to reschedule and never happened yet. Well, yeah, he yeah, I'd be, yeah, I'd be looking forward to that one. He's a, he's a great guy. Last minute or two, what advice. Would you give to someone first time and a lot of this we kind of touched on but First time entrepreneur corporate exec looking to make the leap. They're not happy with their job. They're looking for something else What's a one or two pieces of advice you can leave them with? Do your homework and At the end of the day I would I would try to keep the decision as logical as possible until the very end. And at the end of it, you're going to have to look around that room of the people that you met. And the older I get, the more I've come to understand that like it, it's the older I get, the more important it is who I go through life with. Right. And you need to, you need to, but use your logic, use your numbers. Do your validation, talk to franchise owners make sure, you know, do a little bit of research in your market to, to satisfy yourself, that there's a business for whatever it is you're trying to do. I mean, like do a really, you know, objective job, the extraspective step will pretend you're advising yourself as a client about this opportunity and really step back and say, okay, if I was advising somebody on this, these are the, this is the research that I would need to do. But then like, okay, Do I know, do I trust these people that they have the experience? Do I believe that, that like they're gonna, they're gonna be the same after I joined the system or, or, you know, as they are before. And, you know, because people are fine as long as they know where they stand and what to expect. So like once, you know, as long as what they were led to believe before. Is what happens after that's the start of a fundamentally good relationship is, you know, clear expectations being met. But like at the end of the day, it's, I mean, you can, there can be great businesses out there, but you know, if, if they're not the type of people that you're going to be able to jive with and trust and lean on and, and if they're not your tribe, then, you know, there'll always be a little bit of conflict. So, you know, we, we, we, we want to run with people that, you know, we believe At least for the course of the business that we can align with the values of the organization that we understand how decisions are going to be made, you know, your values will break the ties when there's a tough decision that's facing you you know, you, your business locally or, you know, with the franchise or whatever it is, then, like, you're going to have to lean back into, you know, like, how do we make the right decisions? How do we make difficult decisions? How do we move forward and those types of things? So there's always going to be that type of stuff. And you know, understand that, that if you're coming out of corporate America and you're used to that employment mindset, just understand that, you know, you're going to feel a different type of pressure because everything is really your responsibility. But that's okay. And it's not fatal. It won't kill you. It's an opportunity to learn some new things about yourself. And, you know, and, and as long as you're committed, like, it's like football, right? If you once, once you step across the line onto the field, you can't recontract or you'll get hurt. Like you have to block, you got to tackle, you got to keep your head on a swivel. You got to, you know, like, you know, so once you step across the line, you know, there's no turning back. You've got to do whatever it takes. For as long as it takes to win in your marketplace. And if you go into it with that mindset and say, you know, I might have to change something the way I think about some things. I might have to change some sacred cows. I might not, I might not be able to just, if there's something, you know, kick something upstairs, cause there is no upstairs. You are the upstairs. You are right. So thinking about it that way you know, I've been in business my whole life. So I don't think any other way. Like I always, I always know that the problem's going to rest in my lap. So, you know, so I rushed, I've learned to rush to conflict and how to show up without a blow up. There's a great quote that we use in training says the person who can most accurately describe reality without laying blame shall emerge as the leader. So like, you know, the quicker you can rush to conflict, pick up the phone, get it done, you know, not start blaming for why it didn't happen or why it didn't just get it resolved and move on, man, it's so much less emotional drain on you. So those are things that we, we see, we see out of good business owners. They just, they just get on with it. Just get on with it. You just, you just make it happen. Someone had sent me a YouTube video. I forget, I forget the the speaker was a TEDx It was around grit, you know, you're going to have, you know, you just have to, you just got to barrel through it. And now with the franchise, you have a system, you know, behind you, you have that support, but. You got to get through it. One other thing I always recommend to everyone. This is, you know, really, really basic. And sometimes I feel like I shouldn't say it, but then I realize I do have to bring it up. It's get everyone on board. So prior to the franchise research or the business research or whatever you're doing, if you have a family I was married. We, we, our son was expected later in that year, back in 2007, you know, make sure you're on the same page if you're married with your spouse, boyfriend, girlfriend, you know, whoever, whoever's involved. If your kids are old enough, let them know, Hey, mom or dad are going to be really busy, but this is why we're doing it. It's that basic stuff that I, that I see is not happening. You know, they're not, they're kind of just doing it. And then all of a sudden it puts strain on the relationship. So it's, You know, you know, let the family know and everyone involved why you're doing this and it's to create, you know, for me it was the time freedom and then the financials is important, but for me it was, was, it was time. So let them know that you're doing it, make sure that that support is there or you know, it'll, it'll minimize any issues and, and, and tension down the road. So that's my, my added, you know, one thing I'll, I'll throw in there, but I think that's brilliant advice. Can I add one little sentence? Yes. So you're a hundred percent correct for the people that are in your tent. You've got to be aligned and everybody's got on. So you, you know, your spouse, your kids, like the people that are in the tent, but there's a lot of people hanging around outside your tent. And if you seek their counsel, I would only consider it if they have experience, not advice. I've learned that it's been one of the most fundamental things I've learned. Don't ask for people's opinion that don't have experience in what you're doing. Cause you're just asking them to give me an opinion where they have no basis of fact to do it. And those are the people that kill deals. Well, my father in law, you know, who's, Worked for the city, you know, for 27 years told me that, you know, this wouldn't work in this town. Well, there's no basis. There's no basis for that. Other than the fact that you married his daughter right now, go, go to another business owner or, you know, who, who kill, who kills, who kills people's opportunities. Right. That, that they would have had a great opportunity and they got the right deal they wanted and they got the right territory and they're with the right brand financial advisor, you know, who's working, who's never, who's working for, you know, they're going to, they're not going to want you to do this because they just want you to keep their money with them and look how they're compensated. Right. Look how they're compensated on a percentage of your, of the money. But. By the way, I'm totally stealing. I like this, this tent analogy. Cause I, I talk about it in two different conversations, but you're right. It's gotta be combined into one because I get that all the time. Well, a friend of mine knew a guy who owned a deli and food is oversaturated or you can't make money in food. It's just like based off of what, you know, based off of one, one instance that you were not even involved in. So, so when you seek advice, yeah, be very careful. Don't ask anyone for advice as to your point, as to people that had experience hell, you know, have you owned the business? No, maybe you, maybe you don't want to take advice from them. So you know, it's that's actually, yeah, spot, spot on. I'm, I'm so glad. And I'm going to steal that. So I'm putting it out in the air. So we'll we'll add that in the post. That'll probably one of the takeaways from from today's episode. So Jeff, I, I really appreciate it. I'm sure we can talk forever and love you. Yeah. This has been this has been awesome. Hopefully the, the, the year long wait was worth it, but yeah, we're looking to definitely bring on more guests and, and share ideas. So think about some next episode, any other, any other topics and you know, responsible franchising was, was an idea. We just had a conversation with Aaron suds. So yeah, if you're, if you're hearing things or changes, we'd love to have you back on, but again, it was a, it was a pleasure and looking forward to chatting soon. Thanks so much for having me on. It's been great. Thank you. If you want to learn how to make the transition from corporate to owning your franchise, join Giuseppe on the next episode. You can also follow on all social media platforms and achieve financial and time freedom today.